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View Full Version : Pneumococcal vaccines increase life threatening lung infections.



Momtezuma Tuatara
14-01-10, 09:34 AM
You remember when I wrote "From One Prick to Another"? I predicted yet more disaster?

well, here it is.

http://www.healthnewsdigest.com/news/Children_s_Health_200/Serious_Lung_Infections_in_Children_Jump_After_Int roduction_of_Pneumococcus_Vaccine.shtml

Serious Lung Infections in Children Jump After Introduction of Pneumococcus Vaccine

By UC Davis Children's Hospital
Jan 11, 2010 - 4:34:16 PM
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Increase comes despite a decade-long drop in bacterial pneumonia


http://www.healthnewsdigest.com/artman/uploads/2/UC_Davis.gif
(HealthNewsDigest.com) - SACRAMENTO, Calif.) — A comprehensive national study by UC Davis researchers has found that the introduction of an early childhood vaccine for bacterial pneumonia nearly a decade ago has decreased the incidence of pneumonia, but the drop was accompanied by a dramatic increase in the incidence of a serious and sometimes life-threatening complication.

The researchers conjecture that the doubling of the incidence of the complication, which causes pockets of purulence, or pus, around the lungs, may partly be the result of the vaccine eliminating certain types of pneumococcus, creating the opportunity for other bacteria to take its place.


(Um - exactly what have I been going on about for years - since 1989 to be precise - meningitis vaccine - Hib - Prevnar - staph aureas and this)

Published in the January issue of the journal Pediatrics, the study examined the incidence of empyema, a complication of pneumonia that is a severe infection in a cavity between the lung and the chest wall. Despite a 50 percent drop in hospitalizations from pneumonia due to pneumococcus since the introduction of the vaccine in 2000, and an overall decrease in all bacterial pneumonias, the empyema rate jumped 70 percent.

In 2000, the Food and Drug Administration licensed PCV7, a vaccine designed to protect infants and children from the seven serotypes, or strains of microorganisms, most commonly responsible for serious infections from Streptococcus pneumoniae, which is responsible for most community-acquired bacterial pneumonias.

Su-Ting T. Li, the study's lead author, said that while the study does not directly examine the reason for the increased empyema rate, it may be because the vaccine eliminated competition from the seven targeted pneumococcal serotypes that commonly cause pneumonia, creating opportunities for pneumococcal serotypes not targeted by the vaccine.

Though responsible for less pneumonia overall, those serotypes may lead to more complicated pneumonias, such as empyema, when they do occur. In addition, the incidence of empyemas caused by staphylococcus, another bacterial cause of pneumonia not addressed by pneumococcal vaccines, appears to be increasing. This increase in staphylococcal empyemas may be due to more virulent and antibiotic-resistant forms of staphylococcus, such as methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus (MRSA).

"This may be occurring because the vaccine does not affect the types of microorganisms causing empyemas," said Li, an assistant professor in the Department of Pediatrics at UC Davis Children's Hospital. "The vaccine may be getting rid of the pneumococcal bacteria that cause most pneumonia and other types of invasive pneumococcal disease. But the bacteria that are left over that it doesn't protect against that are more likely to cause empyema may increase because they don't have to compete against the other pneumococcal bacteria anymore."

The researchers launched the study after learning of conflicting regional data on empyema incidence since the introduction of PCV7. Since its introduction, empyema incidence was reported to have increased by 88 percent in Utah and 400 percent in California. Texas, on the other hand, reported a 55 percent decrease. The incidence in Quebec, Canada, reportedly remained unchanged.

The study employed the nationally representative Kids' Inpatient Database (KID) to estimate the total annual hospitalizations of children with empyema 18 and under in the United States. The researchers analyzed KID data from 1997, 2000, 2003 and 2006. The estimated counts for these years were then converted into annual incidence rates per 100,000 children using U.S. Census Bureau data. The findings were then compared to incidence rates between 1997 and later years to gauge the impact of the PCV7 vaccine on hospitalizations.

The researchers found that during 2006 an estimated total of 2,898 hospitalizations of children 18 and under in the U.S. were associated with empyema. The empyema-associated hospitalization rate was an estimated 3.7 per 100,000, an increase of almost 70 percent over the 1997 empyema hospitalization rate of 2.2 per 100,000. The rate of complicated pneumonia, which includes empyema, pleural effusion, or bacterial pneumonia requiring a chest tube or decortication, similarly increased 45 percent to 5.5 per 100,000.

While hospitalization rates associated with complications from pneumonia increased, the rate of bacterial pneumonia hospitalizations decreased 13 percent to 244.3 per 100,000. The rate of invasive pneumococcal disease -- pneumonia, sepsis or meningitis caused by Streptococcus pneumoniae -- decreased 50 percent to 6.3 per 100,000.

The researchers also found that since the introduction of the PCV7 vaccine, the average age of children with empyema is decreasing. In 2006, the mean age for children hospitalized for empyema decreased to just above 6 years, one year younger than the mean age of slightly more than 7 in 1997. For children younger than 5 years old, the rate of empyema hospitalizations increased 100 percent, from 3.8 per 100,000 in 1997 to 7.6 per 100,000 in 2006.

The finding is important because empyemas, though relatively uncommon, can be life-threatening. Empyemas are a collection of pus in the pleural space between the outer surface of the lung and chest wall that sometimes develop from an infection secondary to the pneumonia. Empyemas can impede breathing by pressing against the lung. Early intervention is key to decreasing mortality. Interventions range from antibiotics, to minimally invasive drainage with a catheter, to the riskier open surgical removal of the layer of pus restricting lung expansion.

Li and co-author Daniel Tancredi, an assistant professor in the Department of Pediatrics at UC Davis Children's Hospital, said parents should continue to immunize their children with the pneumonia vaccine because it has proven highly effective in combating invasive pneumococcal disease.

"They should certainly immunize their kids because the fraction of pneumonia that tends to result in empyema is still low, so there is a huge benefit from immunization," Tancredi said.

(Of course. Would you expect them to say anything else???? :shots::shots::shots:)

But parents should be watchful for complications from the types of bacterial pneumonia not covered by the vaccine. Each year, empyema causes significant morbidity with prolonged hospitalizations and multiple invasive procedures.

Li said an expanded vaccine that would cover the serotypes associated with empyema is in the works and is expected to be approved and distributed within a few years.

:chillpill:"We're hoping that once the new vaccine is approved and licensed and distributed to patients we would look at the data again and that we would find decrease in the incidence of empyema," said Li. :ein: "This paper demonstrates the value of nationally representative administrative data sets because they allow researchers and clinicians to address an issue in which regionally specific data sets yielded mixed results," Tancredi said. :olee:

UC Davis Children's Hospital is the Sacramento region's only comprehensive hospital for children. From primary care offices to specialty and intensive care clinics, pediatric experts provide compassionate care to more than 100,000 children each year and conduct research on causes and improved treatments for conditions such as autism, asthma, obesity, cancer and birth defects. The hospital also has the only level 1 pediatric trauma center and pediatric emergency room in the region. For more information, visit www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/children (http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/children).

................ sigh :thud:

Momtezuma Tuatara
14-01-10, 09:55 AM
Put this up, but had to split it into three posts.



Here's the deal, and check this out in pubmed, because it's all there in the medical literature, and has been for decades!!!. Starting with medical stuff written by Lewis Thomas oh, about 50+ years ago...., found if you gave ONE SPECIFIC meningitis vaccine for one type, to animals, they lost their general innate immunity to all the others.

Yes, there is such a thing as inate immunity, which is why most of us never get any sort of meningitis at all, but do develop immunity.

So pharma gets smart and comes out with Menomune A, and other vaccines in the 70's and early 80's. whammo. Suddenly Hib, which started creeping up after the DPT was introduced, is said to become a problem. So out comes a vaccine, and yes, of course, the vaccine results in a reduction in Hib. At a cost. Because the doctors don't realise that it's the capsulated Hib that keeps pneumococcal bacteria in control and when you remove them, then pneumococcal becomes a problem. Oh that's okay, well just give Prevnar.

Trouble is, pneumococcus bacteria keep Staph Aureas and Strep in control. If you are healthy you should have a normal commensal mix of capsular Hib, strep Pneumo, other strep, non capsular hib etc... but like this article shows.. you create a vaccuum and something else will fill the void.

Here's the funny thing. In the 60's USA brought out an adenovirus vaccine and it was a disaster (they don't tell you this do they, but it's in the medical literature) The types in the vaccine were wiped out in the vaccinees, but WORSE types came along and filled the gap. What was the solution? They pulled that vaccine from the civilian population, but kept using it in the military, so that the civilian population was large enough to keep the right types in control, and thereby the vaccine was of use to the military, BUT ONLY because it wasn't used in the civilian population!!!

So their own history should have warned them.

Don't you think it's about time someone wrote a really large book about all the vaccine disasters they keep burying in that pond called "NO FISHING"!.

Actually, the WORST thing is that the experts know all this. Email Dr Marc Lipsitch, mlipsitc@hsph.harvard.edu who is supposed to be the king pin expert on bacterial replacement. He knows. I know he knows, because I've made sure he knows.

But no-one really cares, because as someone said above, the mantra is that they can just keep mopping up with the next vaccine to come along.

MinorityView
14-01-10, 03:18 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kim-stagliano/dr-paul-offit-pope-of-the_b_329919.html?show_comment_id=37967669#comment _37967669

I've been discussing vaccines on Huffington Post. Here is the post I put up about this:

And here we have an interesting example of serotype replacement:

http://www.healthnewsdigest.com/news/Children_s_Health_200/Serious_Lung_Infections_in_Children_Jump_After_Int roduction_of_Pneumococcus_Vaccine.shtml

quote:

— A comprehensive national study by UC Davis researchers has found that the introduction of an early childhood vaccine for bacterial pneumonia nearly a decade ago has decreased the incidence of pneumonia, but the drop was accompanied by a dramatic increase in the incidence of a serious and sometimes life-threatening complication.

---------------------------------

of course this turns out not to be any reason to skip the vaccine, in fact, they come to the conclusion that all that is needed is a bigger and better vaccine.

Is there any other field where a screw-up like this is used to justify carrying on in a path that will be sure to cause more of the same sort of problems in the future?


first response:


http://images.huffingtonpost.com/profiles/665966-2.png?20091212103808 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/users/profile/Sheldon101)
I believe that Prevnar vaccine in children has also had a large benefit to adults and the elderly.

Yes, a vaccine can change the makeup of the viruses in the wild. But overall, there has been a major improvement -- which is what vaccination is designed to do. And the doctor at the end explained that the vaccines were being improved by adding more strains to the vaccines. That's happen with Prevnar (for children) and the different Pneumo vaccines which have added a few more strains.

I'm not sure if the logic also means that it is more dangerous for the unvaccinated. I don't think so.

Of course, having your child die or become sick from a vaccine preventable disease is absolutely horrible.



second response, from a different pro-vaxer:


That isn't a "screw up"; it's an unexpected effect. There is a big, and important, difference.

There have been a few additions to the thread including some comments from a concerned parent of a vaccine damaged child.

These guys are so devoted to the wonders of vaccination that no disaster will deter them. Sort of mind-boggling.

MinorityView
14-01-10, 03:20 PM
I'm not sure my link to my post on the thread is going to work, sorry. But you don't really want to waste your time reading hundreds and hundreds of their posts reassuring everyone that vaccines are wonderful, wonderful, wonderful and people who question them are evil, stupid, evil, stupid...

ema-adama
14-01-10, 05:20 PM
I devoted 5 mins to the thread. It's so boring already..... both sides just dig themselves in deeper and deeper into their trenches. I wonder what impact this has on the overall population. Are fewer and fewer people vaccinating on schedule/at all?

Momtezuma Tuatara
14-01-10, 06:30 PM
In this country, vaccine reactions are now called "expected effects". :wacko:

Fièvre
14-01-10, 11:53 PM
Montezuma Tuatara,you wrote
thereby the vaccine was of use to the military, BUT ONLY because it wasn't used in the civilian population!!! I am not sure to fully understand "...but only because..." : would you developp the relationship between the unvacinated civilian population and the vacinated military concerning this adenovirus vaccine ?

Thanks in advance .

MinorityView
15-01-10, 03:54 AM
I devoted 5 mins to the thread. It's so boring already..... both sides just dig themselves in deeper and deeper into their trenches. I wonder what impact this has on the overall population. Are fewer and fewer people vaccinating on schedule/at all?

Yes, arguing with those guys is very boring. My current strategy is to post once a day, always at the top of the thread, always with a new piece of information about the dangers of vaccines.

I figure that their responses speak for themselves and need no comment at all from me.

Momtezuma Tuatara
15-01-10, 12:49 PM
Montezuma Tuatara,you wrote I am not sure to fully understand "...but only because..." : would you developp the relationship between the unvacinated civilian population and the vacinated military concerning this adenovirus vaccine ?

Thanks in advance . The use of the vaccine in society as well as military, created big holes which WORSE types of adenovirus, which were much harder to treat... stepped in to fill. By using the vaccine ONLY in the military, but NOT in the civilian population which is much larger... the circulating pool of adenoviruses in the civilian population stayed the same, and prevented the more serious types of adenovirus stepping in and causing problems in the military..

MinorityView
15-01-10, 01:29 PM
Not exactly the same, but somewhat similar, was the successful use of the chickenpox vaccine in Japan. There it was used in a limited way, mainly to vaccinate children for whom chickenpox would very dangerous for one reason or another. With chickenpox actively circulating in the general population, the vaccine provided long-term immunity.

In the US, where the vaccine was given to as many children as could be held down and jabbed, the drop in cases created an ineffective vaccine and within a few years outbreaks of chickenpox were occurring in highly vaccinated populations. In fact, I've wondered if the outbreaks were actually started by vaccinated kids shedding virus...

Momtezuma Tuatara
15-01-10, 01:35 PM
The measles vaccine "produced long term immunity" as well, when most others in the community didn't have it, and the vaccineess got their scheduled booster doeses from everyont else....

I'd say with the chickenpox vaccine, that's definitely likely since I believe it's much easier to pick it up from the air and surfaces than the medical profession says it is.

MinorityView
15-01-10, 01:50 PM
That CDC quote I put on the other thread about the ease of transmission within households made me think that it spreads by multiple means. I had chickenpox before I was old enough to remember (before 3), but I do remember my daughter having it, and I don't recall her sneezing or coughing.

MinorityView
15-01-10, 03:35 PM
With the constant "unexpected" failures of various vaccines, it is really handy to have the unvaxed community to blame for outbreaks. Just suppose they had 100% compliance!

ema-adama
15-01-10, 04:35 PM
I am curious about the use of the chickenpox vaccine in Japan. What evidence is there that immune compromised childre respond predictably (as in mount an immune response) to the vaccine?

Fièvre
15-01-10, 08:00 PM
Thanks Montezuma Tuatara !

Would you say that coxsackie virus did sometimes replace poliovirus in the same way ( but perhaps with less serious conséquences ???) [sorry : this question to be tackled elsewere in the forum ; the present thread being devoted to pneumococcal vaccines...; same thing about about Meningitis / Lewis Thomas's declarations ]

Momtezuma Tuatara
16-01-10, 08:54 AM
There are plenty of older medical articles showing that coxsackie and other viruses caused "identical" paralysis syndromes as the polio viruses could.

MinorityView
17-01-10, 08:45 AM
And acute flaccid paralysis continues to occur with acknowledged causes other than polio.