crippled cattle/sister kenny

[Fièvre]

Montezuma Tuatara,

I remember you writing that Sister kenny had reported that crippled cattle were seen just before polio cases occured . Do I remember right ? If I do , this is curious indeed : how do you reason that ?


I just came across these old documents http://www.jstor.org/pss/30061603 neutralization of poliovirus by dog serum and : http://www.jimmunol.org/cgi/content/abstract/57/3/285 ????

There is something I would be sure to understand : if serums extracted from animals are possible this means that the animal in question does host the poliovirus ( or its cousin ???) and consequently produces antibodies , correct ? You can't make a serum if the animal isn't sensitive to the virus , can you ?

Gaston Ramon of prominent importance in France worked on serum from horses ( can't find url anymore ) .

Thanks for your answer

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Montezuma Tuatara,

I remember you writing that Sister kenny had reported that crippled cattle were seen just before polio cases occured . Do I remember right ? If I do , this is curious indeed : how do you reason that ? there are a whole raft of viruses with the potential to cause paralysis in animals. Coxsackie virus can cause polio like disease in guinea-pigs. ironically, the cure is vitamin C and other vitamins in the guineapigs water.



I just came across these old documents http://www.jstor.org/pss/30061603 neutralization of poliovirus by dog serum and : http://www.jimmunol.org/cgi/content/abstract/57/3/285????
Yup, just backs up a whole lot of medical articles I have along the same lines.

One reason for the discrepancies between domesticated and wild, is that it's the domesticated animals which were like to be routinely exposed to high levels of lead arsenate, DDT and other gut-toxic chemicals, which allows the virus to get past all the gut lymphoid tissue and get into the body and cause damage.


There is something I would be sure to understand : if serums extracted from animals are possible this means that the animal in question does host the poliovirus ( or its cousin ???) and consequently produces antibodies , correct ? Yes.


You can't make a serum if the animal isn't sensitive to the virus , can you ?
No.

[Fièvre]

Thanks Montezuma Tuatara , this commentary cleard my mind and will help me understand your point on DDT

By the way you wrote
ironically, the cure is vitamin C and other vitamins in the guineapigs water. Shall we understand that for this disease, for guinea pigs, vit C is the official treatment ???

Best regards

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

coxsackie also causes polio in mice http://archpedi.highwire.org/cgi/reprint/83/1/65.pdf

vitamin C to treat polio?

Until they focussed in a vaccine, that was one of the things the medical profession were looking at. Frederic Klenner successfully treated polio with vitamin C, as did a canadian doctor W. J. McCormick

You should be able to find Klenner and McCormick on Seanet.com:

[Fièvre]

Thank you Montezuma Tuatara !

I was not asking for infos on Vit C /polio since I already knew of this proposition ( and of what happened to it in the 40' see Robert Landwehr article at http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/199x/landwehr-r-j_orthomol_med-1991-v6-n2-p99.htm ) . Other people might profit of this précision .

I was just asking for guinea pigs ( since yesterday I browsed and found that Vit C supplements seem to be an ordinary diet for them )

[ To come back to polio/vitC : I have not read thourougly the article of Landwehr yet ]

[Fièvre]

Montezuma Tuatara,

You wrote :


Yup, just backs up a whole lot of medical articles I have along the same lines.

Will this one take place in your collection : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1521302/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1521302/pdf/califmed00228-0031.pdf ?

Antistreptococcic serum prepared in horses was used to treat poliomyelitis.......The conclusion is reached that the virus of poliomyelitis is a form of the specific streptococcus, which is the agent in primary infections and in the development of the immunizing antibody.
Written not in 1800 but in 1952 ????Was the author a marginal ? He worked at the Department of Biologic Research ,Mayo Foundation Ohio ...(Not the physician round the corner; what was this Mayo Foundation...)

[I came across it after looking for poliococcus see: http://www.harpub.co.cc/misc/OstromParalyticpolio.htm ]

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

No, because I researched it and think it's a peripheral issue.

I can't find my guineapig article right now, and I'm too knackered to do that at the moment.

[Fièvre]

Don't bother with guinea pigs/vitC .

[Fièvre]

Wickman himself, unanymously praised for his seriousness , is said to have reported animal cases of paralysis during one of the first epidemics in sueden ( http://www.archive.org/stream/infantileparaly02healgoog#page/n5/mode/1up )

[Fièvre]

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/91/5/518 an article from 1970 titled Enteroviruses in rural families and their domestic animals
This study conducted around 1970 in Costa Rica reported :
Of the 33 isolates from animals, those identified included 3 coxsackievirus A-20, 21 poliovirus type 1 and 1 coxsackievirus A-9.I thought man was the sole host of the poliovirus !??? [ do they have apes as domestic animals in Costa Rica ?]?????

[ there was the case of the irishes budgerigars http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1614596/pdf/vetsci00342-0007.pdf George Dick is said to have proven the budgerigars weren't hosting the poliovirus ]

And here again :http://www.springerlink.com/content/u5408wx5t622ll82/ in Human viruses in animals in west bengal:An ecological analysis


poliovirus 1 occurred in two species at the end of the study.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Let's rephrase that. It has always been the dogma of the medical profession, that polio's sole host is man.

And those amongst them, who dared to argue, were occasionally published, but in the end, most were refused access to have their work published in any medical journals.

Nothing has changed since then - dissidents are treated the same today, as they were then.

[Fièvre]

In fact Albert Sabin, the physician credited with developing the first polio vaccine advocated the use of colostrum and in fact originally isolated anti-polio antibodies from bovine colostrum. http://www.colostrumresearch.org/Colostrum_Info/colostrum_history.html ?????

Here is (?) the reference : http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/29/1/105

The regular milk of 6 of 20 cows neutralized at least 100 LD50 of virus on one or more occasions, but the antepartum or early postpartum colostrum, or both, of 16 cows all neutralized the virus. In gravid cows neutralizing activity was found as early as 58 days antepartum and in some instances disappeared from the milk as soon as 2 days postpartum. Antipoliomyelitic activity was found only in the colostrum or milk of cows whose serum also neutralized the virus, but there was no correlation between the concentration in the serum and in the colostrum or milk. Type 2 poliovirus was neutralized by 80% of sera from 112 cows, aged 3 to 7 years, in Ohio, Maryland and California, by 28% of 25 California calves aged 6 to 12 months, and by only 7% of 30 Ohio calves aged 5 months. Tests on the sera of 16 Ohio cows also revealed their capacity to neutralize type 1 poliovirus and less frequently type 3 poliovirus.I am not sure to fully understand !!! An effect caused by antibodies ( then shouldn't cows be said to host poliovirus ?)..Or caused by something else ?

Sabin, A and Fieldsteel, A.H. Antipoliomyelitic activity of human and bovine colostrum and milk. Pediatrics, Jan. 1962. pp.105 - 115.
Sabin, AB. Antipoliomyelitic substance in milk from human beings and certain cows. Journal of Diseases of Children 80:866-870 (1950).

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Absolutely. But then anyone who reads medical literature and Sister Kenny's books will know that cows can get polio.

But only in the areas where toxic sprays are used. In Australia, there were heavy duty tick sprays being used at the time when she started practicising. Polio was initially far more common out in the outbacks, than it was in the towns. Same in New Zealand as well.

[Fièvre]

Thanks for the file .

Just a remark : the gamma globulins in cow colostrum might be non-specific ones , not the result of a previous infection with polio . This is too specialised a topic for me at the moment : can't make the difference between specific and non-specific gamma globulins .

[MinorityView]

and the peculiarity of epidemics in rural areas wasn't noted?

Most epidemics used to hit heavier in crowded cities, right?

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

Thanks for the file .

Just a remark : the gamma globulins in cow colostrum might be non-specific ones , not the result of a previous infection with polio . This is too specialised a topic for me at the moment : can't make the difference between specific and non-specific gamma globulins .

Read the first page again. The cow colostrum neutralised type 2 poliovirus. What was the basis for your thoughts above? Page 108 specified that cow antepartum colostrum had "very potent antipoliomyelitic activity." They checked the blood and 16 of the 17 cows "were found to neutralize significant amounts of type 2 popliovirus in a number of instances with titers comparable to those found in human sera tested by the same procedures." The first page was not being vague at all.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

and the peculiarity of epidemics in rural areas wasn't noted?

Most epidemics used to hit heavier in crowded cities, right?Not in this country. Epidemiology of polio in this country, is fascinating, frustrating, and raises a lot of questions, the answers of which would be considered "provocative".

[Fièvre]

In a who document (http://whqlibdoc.who.int/recueil_articles/2000/RA_2000_3_80-91_fre.pdf the english article to be found : Bulletin of the World Health Organization, 2000, 78 (3) : 285-297) :
Des sérums neutralisant le poliovirus ont été retrouvés chez d’autres vertébrés, par exemple chez des vaches, des chevaux, des poulets, des chiens, des chèvres et des moutons, mais sans qu’il y ait des signes d’infection

translated by myself in "polovirus neutralizing serums were found in other vertebrates such as cows,horses,chicken,dogs,goats,sheeps,but without any sign of infection" ????

It refered to : Gear JHS. Poliomyelitis. In : Proceedings of the Second International Poliomyelitis Conference. Philadelphia, PA, JB Lippincott,1951 : 343-352.

[Momtezuma Tuatara]

In a who document (http://whqlibdoc.who.int/recueil_articles/2000/RA_2000_3_80-91_fre.pdf the english article to be found : Bulletin of the World Health Organization, 2000, 78 (3) : 285-297) :

translated by myself in "polovirus neutralizing serums were found in other vertebrates such as cows,horses,chicken,dogs,goats,sheeps,but without any sign of infection" ????

It refered to : Gear JHS. Poliomyelitis. In : Proceedings of the Second International Poliomyelitis Conference. Philadelphia, PA, JB Lippincott,1951 : 343-352.

poliovirus neutralizing serums have been found in 99.9% of humans who also had no signs of infection.

Plainly, as Sister Kenny's book shows, there are signs of infection in animals, if you look for them. I also have old medical articles which clearly showed animals of all breeds paralysed, and which couldn't walk. Notably, the same as with humans, that only occurred in areas where highly toxic sprays were used.